express yourself and get noticed Join BuzzVines Register Now to start publishing ...

234
Reads

Terrorists hit pro-government "Paktoon" tribals

The News: Death toll in Orakzai Jirga suicide blast has mounted to 44 and over 100 were left injured. Police said that a suicide bomber blew himself up at a Jirga here in Adezai area in Orakzai on Friday.

The Jirga meeting was being held mainly to form a tribal Lashkr for ensuring a clampdown on terrorist activities in the area. The injured were rushed to a nearby hospital.

As many as 500 people from Ali Zai tribe were present at the Jirga.
According to witnesses, difficulty was being faced earlier in shifting the wounded to medical facilities due to the ensuing firing in the area.

Emergency was declared at hospitals in Kohat and Hangu after the explosion. 

My question for all those supporting pro-Taliban politicians like Imran and Qazi Co.

1- If Pakistan army was killing innocent tribesmen, like many of you are implying, then why are these tribesmen support army?

2- Weren't the victims of this suicide attack innocent "Paktoons"?

3- How would "sold out" journalist such as Hamid Mir explain this incident? He was the first one to say that Army is killing innocent Paktoons.

Posted in

Comments

Babar where did you get the idea that Imran 'supports' terrorists? This is the most ridiculous idea you've ever espoused and for some reason you keep repeating it unabashedly. Last time you sent a couple of youtube videos that were supposed to 'confirm' his support for terrorism but even though I tried and lord I tried, I could not find any trace of support for terrorism

1- If Pakistan army was killing innocent....

Who tells you that these particular tribesmen are supporting the army? Maybe they were paid for their support?

2. Innocent Pakhtoons... From whose perspective were they innocent?

3. Sold out journalists? In other words If you speak against the government you are not a patriot. Hmmm where have I heard that before?

Remember, a guerilla war cannot be successfully waged unless the majority of the inhabitants support it. This more than anything confirms that the majority of the Paktoon population is behind these 'extremists' as they are evidently waging a very successful war

By the way have you ever asked yourself what exactly do these 'extremists' want? Or have you bought into the propaganda that they abhor 'our way of life'?

Live and let live man, ask them what they want, tell them what you want and then work towards a mutually acceptable, happy medium. Neither they can wipe you out nor you them and sooner or later you will have to sit and chat with them (as is currently being done in Saudi Arabia). So why cause all this bloodshed tobegin with?

 

 

The News: The beheaded bodies of four out of the seven kidnapped tribal elders in Bajaur were recovered from Tangi Khawar on Friday, while the other three chieftains were still missing.

The seven tribal elders, who had raised an armed Lashkar against the militants in Charmang area, were abducted from Sharif Khana last Thursday. The tribesmen on Friday found four beheaded bodies of the elders in Tangi Khawar.

The tribesmen later brought the bodies to the Tangi bazaar where a large number of people gathered to have a glimpse of the deceased. Passions were running high in the area as the local tribesmen strongly condemned the brutal killings of their elders.

The slain tribal elders included Mam Gul Sheikh, Malik Dashan and Jamaldar. The identity of the fourth victim could not be ascertained. Sources said one of the three missing persons was the son of the slain elder Mam Gul Sheikh. There was no word on the fate of the three missing tribal elders and concerns were growing about their safety.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=17744

What do you call this if not act of terrorism? How many more murders will you justify? How many innocent Paktoon's will have to die before government takes a decisive actions against these terrorists.

Plant a tree

I am going to play the devils advocate since no matter what I say will be percived by you as supporting terror.

How is killing someone by beheading them worse than shooting them or dropping bombs on them. Is death more bearable if carried out using modern technology? Is it the terrorists fighting us because they can't stand our way of life or us fighting them because we can't stand their way of life. What right do we have to fight to safeguard our way of life and why don't the Taliban, etc have the same right?

What does the government do to traitors? Kills them correct? So why is it wrong for the Talibans to kill those whom they deem traitors?

Until and unless everyone realizes that the terrorists are NOT doing this for fun but are actually retaliating against what they percieve as injustice to them things will not change

What do you mean by decisive action? You seem to be under the illusion that these are a few, identifiable thugs who are causing the bloodshed. This is an extremely gullible position, this is a POPULAR uprising, admit it.

So the government sends troops with orders to kill and arrest the terrorists

1. How do you identify them

2. How do you turn popular sentiment towards your side instead of further alieanating the population?

3. The northern areas have already been 'radicalized'  by further bloodshed you just give them more recruits while at the same time risking radicalization of Punjabi's, Sindhi's etc who can, after all, only allow a certain amount of bloodshed for this very unpopular Saddam like approach of fighting and killing civilians of your own country

Try to look for implementable solutions and not knee jerk reactions such as "lets go kill them and show them who's boss"

At some point we too will be exhausted and will turn to negotiations so why no forego further bloodshed and turn to dialogue now?

Sorry sir but most of your argument is weak on simple grounds that government of Pakistan is representative of people of Pakistan while Taliban are not. If I am to take your argument for suicide bombing as a valid justification then everyone who believes or have an ideology must start killing others.

Let Shia's kill sunnies and sunnies kill shias. & Why stop there? Let Christians kill Muslims and Muslim kill Christians. After all every single one of us think that we are right & others are not. Why shouldn't I blow up all the hotels, restaurants, barber shops, girl schools, CD shops to promote my ideologies?

If we are to take your justification then perhaps Hitler was right in kill some 7.5 million people.

I don't also agree with your popularity argument because most tribesmen have formed Lushkars in support of army operations. If your popularity claim is correct then why are these tribesmen helping government? Oh yes, in your understanding all those who are helping army are paid to do so while those who are opposing army are TRUE MUSLIMS.

Sorry sir, but these guys are  criminals. Since our police is not capable of arresting & prosecuting them so we need army and rangers to kill or capture these criminals.

Following is a buzzvines debate that you may have missed. We have already discussed that Taliban operating in Pakistan may have been armed and funded by some other force i.e. American, Israelis or someone else. I have opened this debate with that debate at backdrop. I hope reading following link will help you in understanding the context.

http://www.buzzvines.com/information-prostitution-cia-and-its-cohorts-us...

Plant a tree

All the funding in the world cannot lead to a successful operation in a guerilla war. Here is how it works

You launch a surprise attack on your opposition and then melt away into the local population. In conventional warfare you either take and hold territory or retreat to your stronghold. 

These fighters do not have a stronghold but are able to blend into the citizenry with the consent of the citizens. In small towns and communities everyone knows everyone and everyone knows everyones business but as is evident from ground realities the citizens have chosen to either assist actively or to remain indifferent. The lashkars that you talk about are few and far between as compared to the mainstream

Shia Sunni violence and small scale religious radicalism does not ever become such a powerful force of change as the 'war of liberation' (that is exactly what the locals consider it) being fought in FATA.

The Taliban and Al Qaeda are two different forces and two different ideologies so lets not confuse the two. One is a popular movement because it is considered a freedom movement and the other a radical terrorist organization. 

The US made the same mistake of grouping the two together and only now after 7 years have realized their folly and started dialogue with the Taliban. Had they, to begin with, understood the complex traditions of that region, they would have known that there was no way the Taliban could have handed over the Al Qaeda leadership. They could certainly have prevented them from executing terrorism, which they did offer to do, but could not have turned them over to the US.

So again, we can send troops to the region but who are they going to arrest and who are they going to kill? How will they identify the terroists? Force is a successful option only when your enemy is identifiable otherwise all such adventures end in disaster.

I do want peace in Pakistan but have set my emotions aside so before you, as is normal for you, respond by attacking me and my gullibility instead of the problem please take a step back, think about the problem not me and then start typing

& yet all successful guerrilla operation, in recent, history were funded by a country or a group of countries. Be it Bangladesh, Lebanon or Afghan Jihad. Where are these funds coming from? There is surely a foreign agenda -

Is separation a popular sentiment - I seriously doubt so.

Plant a tree

There has to be a popular sentiment and local will otherwise all the outside funds in the world cannot create a successful guerilla movement. The uprisings in Bangladesh, Lebanon and Afghanistan did not originate in a vacuum. Outsiders helped the local population, they did not exclusively fight the war for them.

My apologies for being a bit "harsh" earlier 

Sentiment is there, war against infidels and their Pakistani allies, this is their sentiment - same as Afghan Jihad- they were wrong then and they are wrong now

 

Plant a tree