Our Actions ARE NOT dictated by Our Religion
submitted 2 months 14 days 10 hours ago by: Iola : 46 commentsSaid the same words on one of my blogs just moments before. I strongly believe so and am now opening this discussion before you.
I have my share of differences when ppl say that we should do something because we are Muslims. In fact, I remember saying just that to Amber Ghaffar in that controversial debate that she ensued through her buzz. I don't remember just what it was but I feel that we should not be making choices because we are Muslims but because we feel these would be the best choices for us.
On one hand, this is how I think yet on the other hand, there are numerous occassions when I, having been born a Muslim feel compelled to follow the way of Islam, due to my lack of deep understanding of Islam, and then again I have made choices that were not always Islamic.
Let me further elaborate this point!
Islam says, don't lie. We are Muslims. Yet we do lie. So if we are Muslims, either lying should show that we are not Muslims or we are not making this choice as a Muslim but as an individual opting to lie independent of his religion thus protecting his or her personal interests.The same is true for other religions
Although not following one dictate does not imply that the religion has been violated completely. That,of course, is not what I mean to say.
My question is should we put our religion before us while taking ethical and moral decisions or should we use empirical reasoning or a posteriori approach to make choices?
If we put our religion before everything, doesn't it require full understanding of what our religion actually preaches and is not a religion logical? I also think that only a detailed study of the history of a religious people should give us the basis to opt for a religion. Religion is based on scripture and the scripture based on logic that convinces ppl that these are the best of principals for living a life. We should have full belief in the superiority of the scripture as the best moral framework, alongwith its rationale. Only then should we let a religion dictate us, not because we were born into it.
If we don't think so either we should not call ourselves believers of a certain religion or we should accept that our choices are not dictated by our religion.
PS: Has anyone of you ever thought so or I am the blasphemous culprit here raising an immoral issue?
Comments
The religious ideal is an aspiration, a journey. A person who is well informed in his/her religion of choice will automatically be guided by the principles espoused by that religion. Their choices in life will conform to those religious ideals
Exactly!
Iola: I think our actions are mostly dictated by our religion. Lets say the are 'guided' by it.
Khalifa: A person who is well informed in his/her religion of choice will
automatically be guided by the principles espoused by that religion
Couple of questions arise here.
1. How does 'religion of choice' set in?
2. Religion of choiuce sets in very rarely so you have to follow the norms set by religio-socio mix. You 'have to do it'.
Scenario: You are a member of Aztec civilization of southern-central South America. They required human sacrifice to please God. Would you say No?
PostMan
There is an agreement on that but that is the question, why are they guided by it? Let's take your example. Why are your actions guided by Islam, assuming you are a Muslim?
Secondly, are they really guided by Islam?
Thirdly have you ever thought of changing your religion? If not, why not? ( Doesn't mean that I am encouraging it)
Because its easy to do! Because it will not elicit hue and cry! because it will make me accepted by the other members of the society!
Pl do reply to the added-on remaining two questions too. :)
Regarding second question.. khalifa has the answer.. know thy religion!
Regarding third question.. damn! why did you ask it?! :p
With reference to your first answer, will you change your religion, if you go live in a Christian or Jewish community to become acceptable to those around? Should that be the basis of our choice of religion? :)
I will not change my religion if I go and live with a particular community because I have already been identified with a particular religion when I was born! family comes first and not the community!
Then starts the process of analysing, thinking .. perhaps seeking solace... if you find that in another place.. you'll convert..
Lol. The whole issue is about the choice of religion. That is why I asked you that. Didn't think it was such an impossible question especially if you are the thinking type. :)
Did I make a mistake there?
Even if I did, do ask yourself that! :)
PostMan, that's just what I am saying. We are Muslims by birth not bychoice. In this, we need to expand our knowledge and then decide whether we should be Muslims or not.
Religion should not be something like the genes passed on to you from the family. It should be like a cloak which you either decide to wear or not as your identity and of your choice.
Where did you get the impression I was the thinking type?! damn it I thrice read my own written sentences as to what the hell have I written! :p
Iola, there is a thing called 'human values' and they were not defined
by a particular religion. Regarding 'lie',
even an atheist understands its not good to lie.
Yes religion should not be as you state but you have to wear the coat the first time! its cold out there you know! you need the warmth of society and family. Go la naturale if you can do it later :p
Didn't get the impression. Just scoring a point there in a friendly way. ;)
So you mean to say that choices are dictated by human values? Where did you get these values from? From your religion or experience or deductive ability?
You sure are making an effort to think! Bravo. :)
You mean one should have a religion before one becomes an atheist? ;)
They are in built in you.. where did you get the sentiment of Love?
You are already tagged a particular label when you are born... you become an atheist later. Even the first part of your core belief... 'There is no god but God'... tells you to be an atheist in a way :p
Are you talking about the GOD GENE?
Tell me which values will you have if you live in a jungle amid animals? Why do human values vary from person to person?
Love is an emotion not a human value!
Yes so at last we come to the point where we agree that we are born into a religion and we don't necessarily need to pursue it for that reason. Good!
Why do you find it so impossible to think of a change of religion? Why is Islam the best religion for you? Does it really dictate the choices you are making in your life? These are questions still left to be answered by you.
Thats why i referred to it as a sentiment... and in this day and age of hatred.. perhaps we have to emphasize it as a human value and not mere emotion that comes and goes and does not last as values do!
If I were in a jungle.. I would focus on survivability.. just as I would do that in a society.
For that we have to first accept the values propagated by a particular religion, isn't it so?
Would any religion dictate you in a jungle? Why do you have to be a believer in a society? For survival and social adjustment? Then how about studying the rest of the religions to better assess the religion you should choose? Why the dogmatism? Why are you sticking to Islam? Does it really let you live the best kind of life?
I replied it way earlier.. you dont change the religion becasue of the acceptability factor in society. If the society tolerates it.. it would be easier for me to change. In the pakistani scenario... you can improvise lets say... drop certain things from 'your' understanding of current religion and adapting it to a version acceptable by at least you...
What the hell am I saying?!
Exactly what the hell are you saying? Contradicting yourself
Then you are most certainly not following a religion. You are making choices of your own accord! Adapting! Just my point! :)
Are values not shared amongst religions? Is lying ok in hinduism? I thnk not.
Do study other religion! and one should not be dogmatic! (easier said than done :p)
I am not sticking to Islam the brand, I am sticking to Islam the generic one! submission. (Yeah Yeah I know easy way out :p)
I am not contradicting myself :) I am just telling you what goes on.. My first comment... 'religion of choice' sets in rarely.. it really does! mostly you are guided by (so called) religion... the lower level is adapting (as you say) and improvising (as I said) if you are not comfortable with it..
Do you adapt a religion because of the human values?
If lying is not ok in Islam and Hinduism, why not go for Hinduism?
Lastly it proves that we are not really accepting a religion for what it preaches but we deduce the course of action by logical reasoning to what suits us best!
Let me give you a dumb example equivalent to myself...
There are all sorts of brands of an automobile... EVERY car has 4 tyres, steering, seats, engine etc. You dont like a particular car becasue it has 4 tyres! you like it for other reasons.. Lying would not be OK in both the religions. I stick to Islam for monotheism perhaps and cant accept polytheism.
"Lastly it proves that we are not really accepting a religion for what
it preaches but we deduce the course of action by logical reasoning to
what suits us best!"
Its very difficult! Rememebr my first scenario of Aztecs? Trust me.. if you were an Aztec.. you'd be the first one to have a machette in your hand :p
So there! You have another reason :) Good to see you still thinking.
Agreed with the Aztec thing! In other words, social pressure to abide by a certain religion is inavoidable and that is why we have to be a Muslim! This is just what I want us to think over!
thinking? uhh ok :p
Tea? :)
Good idea. :)
Don't take tea! How about coffee? See you around! A lil busy now.
*kaprray jharrtay hoye... angrrai :p*
I'll.... umm.. go fish... :p
LOLZ. Ciao!
Well...I am totally lost in this debate....!
While you are right when you say that our actions are not dictated by religion....nevertheless we are "guided" in most of our actions by our religion....and if we lie that is also we are guided not to do so but we do that anyway...why...because may be we are gotten used to that...or for some other reasons....!
I think it would be a combination of both....! There are many things that are prohibitted in Islam yet we continue doing those and set our own boundaries....thats true BUT for most action we are indeed guided by our religion.
Living in a western society and surrounded by non-muslims, most of my muslim friends and I totally abstain from alcohol... Do we do so because we know its not good...or because we are told to stay away from it..... what will happen if a take a glass occassionally...?
We haven't ever been to a disco ...we have heard its lots of fun....why dont we go....??
We stick to getting halal meat only....and have food from certified outlets only...Why...? What's bad in eating chicken thats slaughtered the other way...? Everyone is having it...? Same goes for so many other food items avaiable in the market that has animal gelatine etc....!
My friends and I do it because thats what we are directed to do...not for any other reason. I think we follow because we do believe in the superiority of our scripture like many of our non-muslim friends who beleive theirs to be more superior....!
You are right West Coast Eagle in what you state. Actually Iola and I messed it up :p hehe!
West Coast: Living in a western society and surrounded by non-muslims, most of my muslim friends and I totally abstain from alcohol... Do we do so because we know its not good...or because we are told to stay away from it..... what will happen if a take a glass occassionally...?
Iola: My question is should we put our religion before us while taking ethical and moral decisions or should we use empirical reasoning or a posteriori approach to make choices?
West Coast: My friends and I do it because thats what we are directed to do...not for any other reason. I think we follow because we do believe in the superiority of our scripture like many of our non-muslim friends who beleive theirs to be more superior....!
Iola: "We should have full belief in the superiority of the scripture as the best moral framework, alongwith its rationale. Only then should we let a religion dictate us, not because we were born into it. "
All fine till now. The problem comes when there is a 'conflict'. Would you choose religion or logic? I gave the Aztec example. If you were an Aztec, would you perform a human sacrifice? Either you perform human sacrifice or leave Aztecs. You are being guided by religion in first case and by logic in the latter. You, Iola and I face these dilemmas quite often. Can you leave your religion altogether if you cant digest what it states? Can you convert easily to the religion of your choice? Or Do you 'adapt'?
And yes I agree.. Iola talks alot :p And yes. the topic is not about what I am saying in this post :p
Damn what crap!
Hey Iola - I am back...
Hmm...
I think the answer as to whether or not religion dictates our actions is directly proportional to the the amount of conviction one has in their religion...also, the level of understanding (and context) which one has interpreted a religious doctrine...e.g. suicide bombers believe they are doing what they are doing for the sake of their religion and that there are martys but in actual fact, many scholars point out that this action is totally against Islamic principles and they have misunderstood the scriptures...
Furthermore, if someone does not solidly believe in their religion or has been simply born into it and never taken the effort to explore it and accept it because it appeals to the logic, then one is simply guided by his/her nafs (self) or misconceptions of religion...
Ideally, if one has reached a higher spiritual state, religion is a way of life for them and they oft-times question themseleves before anything, 'would my Lord be happy with this?'
In response to your question, i.e. 'if lying is not ok in islam and hinduism, y not opt for hinduism?' well, to me, it's not just one aspect or a couple of aspects i look for, i sought for a holistic approach - something that encompasses everything from hygiene, to relationship with parens, to women's rights, inheritance - and i have found islam to have outshone all the rest...hinduism - the whole concept of many gods, etc dsnt make sense to me...same with christianity - jesus being the son of god...dnt have much time, got to dash just now...but a brilliant blog...
i do not profess to be an angel...i do perform acts contrary to islam (in dressing, etc...not immodest but not in line with islamic principles) owing to lack of apt will-power and in such actions, i do admit that they are from me...they are my weaknesses and are not inspired by divinity...and i pray to able to advance from strenth to strength...
at other times, they keep me in line, remind me of my purpose...e.g. when i feel tempted to dive into new business opportunities, become more 'greedy' - i remind myself why i am here and need not chase my tail in the rat race if i have enough...
will type more soon...xx
Agree with Hawa Omar
Well stated...!
Thank you PostMan, West Coast Eagle and Hawa, other than the PostMan saying that we messed it up, when in fact I think we cleared it up for a lot of those around, I agree with almost all the reasons that each one of you has given.
The justification for religion of course varies from person to person, in one case it is scripture, in others it is culture; some take it as salvation for the soul, direction and guidance etc etc. The purpose was for each one of us to analyze how well we know the religion we were born into and that there is a need to think more deeply about it for better logical justification, and for adopting it after being born into it. :)
We, of course, are a long way off. Yet all the best. Stay in touch. Ciao. :)
Good to have you back Hawa. Hope the weekend went nicely.
Iola - thanx...it's gr8 to be back!!!!!
Alhumdulillah, my weekend went well...was eventful...how about urs?
Way too good to be described in words. Magical actually. :))
Iola - i'm super-happy dat u had such a magical weekend... ('',)
I am going to add you as a buddy now. You have become one for sure! :)
SO FINALLLY I M BACK
.....(i tried to do a sorta boycott but NO ONE GIMME ME A DAMN ,HEHEH)
WELL..unfortunately i failed to convey what i was tryin to say there .and i m no more interested in startin tht thing again.....last time i saw a sick comment of a (censored) person whom u ppl were advocatin for so i left seein tht buzz aswell.
just for a bit of knowledge sharin
i read in an article of IRSHAD AHMED HAQANI yrs before a very impressive thing .i read tht in urdu article ....
HUM MUSALMANO KI BADKISMATI YEH HE K HUM PEHLAY DUNIA K RANG ME RANGTE HEN AOR PHIR APNAY AAP KO ISLAM ME DHALNAY KI KOSHISH KRTE HEN .AOR AIK AJEEBO GHAREEB SHAKHS BAN KR UBARTE HEN.
.............................................this is our truth........
u r very much right ............iola i always struck on a point ....point that what the hell v r doin here y v r workin so much to get something vhich has to end one day.....N ONE DAY WEN I WAS THINKIN THE SAME I GOTTA VOICE TELLIN ME THAT u human dont have ENOUGH WISDOM to understand the truth ........hamari akal sachai ko nahi samajhskti he ............hum logic nahi apply krsktay her jagah.....kuch jagaho per kuch bato per BIN DAIKHE EEEMAN LANA HE HUM KO....
.............
Iola - I am truly honoured!!!!! :-D
:) Cheers! Let's drink to that!
TAIMUR .
WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD DICTATE OUR ACTIONS?ALLAH HAS GIVEN FREE WILL TO ALL HUMAN BEINGS SO I DO NOT THINK THAT ANYONE CAN DICTATE ACTIONS?
Finally an excellent question from you Taimur. How about trying to answer yourself? :)
Give some views and then I'll add on.
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