I agree in principle with you Khalifa... but here is the thing. Its not that they wont be given birth in society right? This phenomenon will keep occuring. So should not these lives be taken care off instead of aborting them or left in ditches?

Negative sentiment with the act of extra-marital relationship should be maintained and supported but the prson who did this should be made responsible for their lives. kinda Maury Povich thingy.

But then again we'll end up as the discussion whether condoms are a measure for birth control or tool for promoting sex.

Argument is not against the children but against providing legitimacy to their conception and subsequent acceptance of this behaviour. Ultimately this leads to problems against which the taboo was initiated to begin with.

A Love Child is the result of that divine conception which creates life and brings a beating heart into this world. It was this divinity which was manifested by Adam and Eve which resulted in the creation of this universe. A child cannot be illegitimate or legitimate. Simply a human being, like all of us.

Take Care

Dr.Irfan Zafar

Are you sure you know what illegitimate means Irfan?

Societal pressure should prevent conception and premarital sex should be frowned upon. A child, however, if born should be afforded full rights and not discriminated against.

Religion as in Islam or any religion for that matter? Society is not based exclusively on religion.

Nobody does take the responsibility. A child which is born due to rape or premarital sex becomes an onus rather than a boon for any family. He or she reminds them of the incident that they wish to forget. Not even recognized, the child becomes pariah in closed societies like ours. How can any man or woman acknowledge their sin publicly and the posterity that will follow would be a constant reminder of something done against the rules of the society.
Indeed makes it very hard for anyone to acknowledge or accept illegitimate children even  when they are love children.

It's one thing being broad minded and quite another being overzealous and overdoing it. The very act of bringing a bastard child into a world where 'legitimate' children outnumber him puts the responsibilty of the problems inherent sqarely on the parents. You can argue that we should remove the taboo from having children out of wedlock but that would strike at the root of civilization, marriage.

I don't believe I need to expound on the problems that would arise if the institution of marriage were to be sacrificed on the alter of broadmindedness.

And Irfan himself despite all his ideology is the most society-consious person in the world. Wouldn't step out of the boundaries eva! Just talks funny. Right Irfan? :)

Right Iola :-)..That's also a fact

By the way let me tell you all a fact. When the new Computerized National Identity Cards (CNIC) were being planned, I proposed in one of my writings to the Ministry to add DNA indentification in addition to the Blood Group. The idea was rejected because of "social" reprecussions.......who is who, born to whom, son/daughter to which father.

You know what, the society is blind. They do not want to acknowledge what they do not want to see around us.

Truth Sir's/Ma'ams.

They can agree knowing it is a sin...they might feel sinful too even if they agree to do it. They might just have chosen to overlook that! No? Is that impossible to imagine?

No I am not involving religion. Would hate to do that. I think SIN is a very relative word. Sin to some can be a virtue.

I think let human beings life as free people, provided they are not causing harm to any other human being.

Also in my view becoming a better human being comes first. After that it is the choice of an individual to choose any religion he wants or decide not to choose any religion at all.

"Sir and Ma'am somehow always sounds very sarcastic"

No. I am sorry for that if you are taking it that way. I generally write it adrressing someone with respect.

"they might feel sinful too even if they agree to do it"

There is no sin in making love before or after marriage. Just man made stuff of morality.

I told you all, I am the odd-one here as far as this topic is concerned

Actually I am in the process of understanding life and it's meaning. I am still in a state of fix to understand the man made meaning of "morality". I think I have reached a level in my quest for truth that almost every thing has somehow become misty. I think I need more time. I told you all earlier....I am totally LOST.

But I alos feel that in this lost madness, I am finding peace which I was longing for.

Saadat Hassan Manto writes:

But....why is a woman afraid to face the outcome of a relationship? Is it because she sees it as the fruit of her sin? But what is this rubbish about sin and virtue? A banknote can be genuine or fake, a child cannot be legitimate or illegitimate. It is not like putting an animal under the knife in the name of the God of the muslims or decapitating it in the manner approved by the sikhs. A child is the outcome of that divine and magnificent madness which first gripped Adam and Eve. Oh! that madness!

("Stars from another Sky" by Saadat Hasan Manto. Translated from Urdu by Khalid Hassan. Penguin Books. Page:61)

I am Manto's deciple by the way....

Revolt against established values is noble indeed but only if you have something worthwhile to say. Freud is an excellent example of a worthy cause and this quote from Manto a terrible example of misguided angst.

Bringing children into this world does not require much more than a few minutes of mad passion as you stated; in fact every animal and even the most primitive of living things, micro organisms, do it all the time, but how, why and when to have children is what sets humans apart. The reason why women bear the seal of nature is so that the sanctity of womanhood and the enormity of the inherent responsibilities can be driven home.

"Support of your ideas"

You mean another rebel without a cause? :)

Doc u realy need a psychiatrist and u know the person who is not willing to understand the rite thing ve alot of logics to support his/her wrong one.....

anywas doc u dnt want 2 understand wht iola , khalifa and others are saying ... may be just to get the tag of ODD ONE.... cz many more from us like this tag.... so no comment on ur post

People blamed Manto of spreading vulgarity and he was also tried in the court of law. Now his writings are considered as the best ever literature ever written with no contemoporary till date. He was ahead of his time, so am I :-).

I can't really blame buzzvine members for their strong reaction. I stand by my views.