Long March
submitted 2 months 20 days 2 hours ago by: Sabir.Saleem : 56 comments
Long March has been started and carvans of lawyers from different cities are on their way toward Islamabad.To me it will end with some consequences more probably favourable. As earlier, Lawyers efforts comes up with some results specially regarding Musharraf dictation.
Today when I crossed GPO on Mall road, I saw a handsum person with some statement on simple paper, I assumed that he would be one of professional beggers quoting their illness and problems. But one thing clicks in my mind that a well dressed person is not supposed for begging, as I crossed him I read that Statement which was " Welcome to your contributions for independence of Judiciarry ". Then I come to my conclusion that He is a Lawyer and is acting like a Notice Board to intvite general Public.
Let see... Ye tamasha kya rang lata hai... :)
Comments
and I though June was Long.
Dear All
It's time to get out of our comfort Zones and fight for Justice wherever we are. Just join them. I for one will be outside the parliament house fighting for this cause. Let's make a difference.
Take Care
Dr.Irfan Zafar
March of Panguins - They are black & white and they also kwack
Plant a tree
Great powers of observation and very substantive discourse, Babar. Bravo!
Babar they are currently the only vocal civil unit out there to protest against issue of judges reappointment.
Ok right that seems to be their focal point! I like them for it too.
But when these judges were there, how free and fair was the judiciary? How perfectly good and reliable were the decisions? Was there no corruption or bribery? Were they neva biased?
I know I am talking about something slightly off-kilter here and though I am all for the long march as it might help us in uniting, becoming a force against exploitation of constitution and making ppl feel accountable for their decisions yet this question still haunts me. :)
The judiciary was not that free, the decisions might not have been good or reliable and there was/ is corruption and bribery and they must have been biased.
Now the other side. A person (no matter how corrupt he himself was) stood against the decisions of a person who thought he can do everything. Suo Moto acts - from frivolous to serious - indicated the stance that there should be a check on the powers of Executive. Legislator was too dumb to act when it was needed. Judiciary rose in the form of a check and Musharraf and his advisors acted very poorly.
Reinstatement of Judges indicates that a dejure organ of State won against the defacto Presidency. Nov 3 decisions will be cancelled which indicate that a dictators rule and his acts will be nullified. This will set the future course of Pakistani politics. It is good for the future generations.
You are right that they were not angels. But now if someone has stood up against injustices, we need to support the. Is there any other way out. Do we continue to live a life of humiliation. If there was any time to hit back, this is it. We need to change the system and what I believe is that what they are fighting for right now is worth dying for.
Hmmm.. both of you are right!
All judges should be back in there offices and we should get rid of military dictatorships permently and it would be good for future generation .I agree with POSTMAN and Dr.Irfan Zafer .
Dr Irfan:
Your step is for the right casue. Jabir Hukmran kay samnay Klma-e-Haq Afzal Jihad Hai.
This is not about CJ Iftikhar just..It is a movement of civilian rule in a military ruled country..The people who cant participate in it , they should contribute financially to support this movement.
IOLA: Surely they were not angels b ut 1st time in our judiciary some one used teh righ tof Soumoto action for the good otherwise it was just being used notice of so called contempt of court
Often wonder what converted him! :)
One point which is wandering in my mind, Although majority (can also say whole) of public are in favour of restoration of CJ Iftekhar along with others and CJ got a heroic image now. I appreciate his sue moto Acts.
But what about that day when he took oath under PCO on the hands of Musharraf in 1999. At that time he was supporting a dictator and now he is agaist.
Our writings here on this forum carry no meaning if we remain dormant. Criticizing is easy but to do something practical is difficult and needs determination. If we love our country, we need to stand up and make a difference. Else there is no point in living a life of a coward. There is a chineese quote:
"Burry me standing as I have lived all my life on my knees"
Choice is ours.
Dr. Sahb I am with you :)
@sabir.saleeem
Do we have to continue to do bad things if we have done something wrong in the past. I have seen people who never prayed in their life but start looking towards God one fine morning. Does that mean that their change towrds goodness be discarded because they were not pious in the past. What about Quaid, Iqbal..look at their past and look at what they delivered.
Yes Ch Iftikhar was wrong and their were Judjes who did not take oath at that time and retired. But this man has now stood up against the General. He is now a symbol of fight between dictatorship and democracy. Let's look forward not backward please.
Ok Agreed if CJ really have such kinda Bona fide intentions and in future he will not be biased. Let's see
@Iola
Certain incidents in ones life change ones perception of life. If you have read Gandhi, all his life changed when he was told to step out of the train meant only for white people. History is full of such examples. I think when Ch Iftikhar said NO to the General, that was the defining moment when everything changed for him. In the past our Judiciary always bowed in front of the dictators.
@Sabir.Saleem
If you have a Judiciary which is independent and has integrity, they have inbuilt mechanisms which punish the Judge who has some boafide intentions. Justice Iftikhar should not be an exception if the Institution of Judiciary is honest.
Ok lets start something constructive here. I am sure that each one of you can make a difference. Mother Teresa , Nelson Mandella, Gandhi and many others did it alone. Why can't we be one.
Question: Will you join Long March? Simply write YES or NO followed by your comments.
Clock is Ticking....
YES I will....
yes..
you know very well that i m suffering frm exams :) but once they r over on 16 i'll join the action (or whatever is left of it).....
I can't believe you guys are still sitting at your PC's posting on Buzzvines. Go out save the country you so vehemently praise online or is it just that, lip service?
Prove me wrong, prove the world wrong, show us that Pakistani's cherish freedom enough to, at the very least, take to the streets in the blazing heat of the summer.
This may be the one and possibly the final chance for citizens of Pakistan to come together as just that, Pakistanis. Not as Sindhis or Pathans, nor as the haves or the have nots, not as the Jihadi or the secularist but as one nation sharing a common goal, a common destiny; all pulling in the same direction, the direction of peace of progress of prosperity. Rekindle patriotism, rekindle hope, embrace your neighbors, your fellow country men, help them on, and have them help you remain steadfast.
Your time as a nation has come, no longer can you hide behind slogans or afford to be complacent, it truly is a moment where your survival depends on the war cry, "all for one and one for all". This is a worthy cause and has potential to not only change history but to chart its course.
If Pakistani's fail Pakistan today the blazing summer days will pale in comparison to the dark, lonely, cold nights of perpetual slavery.
Supporting penguins is one thing and I surely support their cause because my
father is also a Lawyer (he was a prominent activist and was twice imprisoned by
Zia’s regime for organizing pro-democracy protests - not house arrest btw). However making distinction
between a 40 year old legitimate struggle for supremacy of law vs. a political gimmick (thanks to hyped media)
are two very separate things.
I have no respect for CJ. I mean yes if your sole motive is to ouster
Musharraf through exploiting a popular issue then may be he is your best bet.
But cause of freedom of judiciary is not served here. Seriously! How is this
man a symbol for free judiciary when the only time he realized a need for judicial
freedom was after being sacked by the previous government. Before that he was a
total YES BOSS. He is a hypocritical bugger who will go to any extent to remain
in the most powerful office – monthly bribes for CJ exceed millions. Its all about money and power for this guy. Struggle to put this bugger back in office has cost us billions and that too for what good. He will please his supporters, take revenge on opposition and make some extra millions before resigning. Can he really change the judicial system including lower courts, district court or even system at higher courts of Pakistan. How many of you have actually visited these courts even once in your lives?
If you want freedom and independence of judiciary then we may have another discussion on that topic at another buzz and some other time. But this drama, for God sake, is not a struggle for independence of judicary. It is a struggle to put a favorite judge back into office so he can give some favors.
Sory but this guy is not Mukhtara Mai – he is one of the rapists who have
been abandoned by his own band so he has joined the opposite band & it seem to be working for him.
Plant a tree
"the only time he realized a need for judicial
freedom was after being sacked by the previous government"
Not sure if you are reading the same news as everyone else but he was sacked BECAUSE he was taking actions contrary to the previous (illegal) governments dictates. He was sacked BECAUSE he was attempting judicial reform.
All of this happened way before he was sacked
Would you like to enlighten me through an example
Plant a tree
You are kidding me, right?
babarzm: "I have no respect for CJ"
Me neither. For me he would be the most hypocritical person on this planet BUT I still support the judicial casue. And do you know why? because it will HELP the institution of judiciary. It will become independent. Executive and Legislator will know that there is an other 'powerful' institution that can 'play' its role.
When judges will be reinstated, the Nov 3 decision of Musharraf will be reverted (hopefully) which would indicate that a single-person-induced changes would be withdrawn - this will indicate that a dictator was defeated and the proper institution of Legislator as law making authority would be validated.
Justice Choudhry may be the biggest thug present but he will leave and other judges will take up his place. Why not plant a tree Babarzm and support the cause?
THE REAL PROBLEM
Just count the number of reads of this post (223 uptil now). Hardly 1.5% have responded (Yes or No, we respect both).
"The real tragedy is not the injustices inflicted on us by the mighty. But it's the silence of the ones who continue to suffer the humiliation heads down"
This is the problem. Those who have remained silent readers of the post are actually the ones who are part of the problem and are doing their bit to destroy; whatever is left of Pakistan.
Remain silent and suffer. At times we deserve a life of humiliation.
Take Care
Dr.Irfan Zafar
Postman,
I share your views. However I will restrain a little bit so
government can spare some time for the financial and food crises, which to me
is a bigger and more immediate threat to my people.
Considering Maslow’s theory of human needs, food comes first
and then comes justice - but then again would reinstatement of CJ ensure cheap
and fast justice for poor. I doubt that.
This march is abstaining resources that can be put to proper
use for solving more immediate problems that people are facing at the moment. Throwing
Musharraf out of office and CJ in the office will not feed anyone, but these
protests will surely create more ciaos in the country.
Plant a tree
Again Babarzm, plant a tree.
I agree, there are more serious issues at stake, this one too relates to the future of this country. Govt should focus more on countering inflation and making good the lives of citizen and Govt should be forced to reinstate judges.
Throwing Musharraf out and CJ in will do hell lot of good. They are 'representation' of something and not persons per se.. One a Dictator and the other a representative of an institution that can play proper check.
Throw Musharraf out, I don't really care if Musharraf stays
or goes. He seems to be going anyway.
But how will reinstating CJ make things any better? Why don’t
we consider his role of first 7 years in office? He endorsed every single act
of military government. I don’t need to list all as I assume everyone to know
these facts.
How do you see this man doing any justice, if once again been
reinstated, considering decisions which he took after being reinstated the
first time were totally biased and malignant? The only purpose was to take a
person grudge out against people who dismissed him and to facilitate those who
helped. He does not have any character left to be a judge anymore.
Why waste time and resources on reinstating such a person?
Plant a tree
You are stuck with Justice Iftikhar the person. Think about Justice Iftikhar the Chief Justice. Get the drift?
Justice iftikhar will bow out soon. There will be another person as Chief Justice. The Judiciary as an institution will rise.
Like I said - I am pro freedom of judiciary but I don't see
CJ as a good person to lead or even be party to such a cause.
Secondly, struggle for freedom of judiciary has continued
for last 40 years and will continue for another long time to come. This particular
long march is no more a struggle for free judiciary. It has become a struggle
to reinstate a favorite judge so he can give some favors to his supporters.
& I am not blaming penguins here.
Thirdly, cost we are paying for this
political gimmick has exceeded billions when this is not even a struggle for free judiciary
Plant a tree
Angels dont tread here Babarzm... Forget Justice Iftikhar, how about Justice Rana Bhagwandas?
struggle for the freedom of judiciary will be there forever... currently its about reversing the acts of one man and reestablishment of an institution.
The lawyers struggle now has detracted from the high agenda
of independence of judiciary to a much smaller & tactically wrong agenda of
reinstatement of Ifftikhar Chawdhary. & this is tarnishing this 40 yrs old
struggle.
There are bigger names in Pakistani judiciary. People who
refused to take oath in 1999. People who stood in way of our democratically
elected dictators (i.e. PM Nawaz Shariff 1998). Yet this has become a monotone movement
for reinstatement of a low character judge who only realized a requirement for
independence of judiciary once he was sacked.
Furthermore the losses are too huge now. This has become too costly for our nation.
Plant a tree
Ok babar tell me.. (though around 60 judges will be reinstated) do you support this casue if Justice Iftikhar does not resume the chair?
301 Reads. Hardly 20 replied. Pathatic.
Join the March
@ Baber
Can you explaing following two questions;
1 - Are you supporting Mush or independent judiciary. As I observed here, you are totally in against of restoration of judiciary.
2 - Do you support decision of dictator specially PCO, and all those judges who are on chairs by oathing under PCO.
If you answer is YES for both above, then it seems you are part of Mush's Think tank.
Why do you keep repeating this statement when you clearly know its false?
"who only realized a requirement for
independence of judiciary once he was sacked"
Ever ponder why he was removed the first time? Because he had started to hold the regime accountable for its actions and because Musharraf was convinced that he would not uphold an unconstitutional 'reelection' of Musharraf.
Had he been a Musharraf 'yes man' as you are trying to paint him, he would not have been sacked the first time around. Stop regurgitating what you hear and start reading the facts for yourself
BABAR:
You are right that judiciary had good judges earliar who refused to take oath on PCO..BUT you know they all resigned and peacefully sat at home...CJ iftikhar was the 1st person who came ahead and he was manhandeled..He didnt sit at hoem after beign sacked...It is teh difference between Justice wajih uddin and IFTIKHAR...
KHALIFAH & DOC:
Carvan will be leaving lahore at 3PM and ofcourse we will go there becasue we belive what we say here...Every one should participate even if he can spare ten minutes in lahore only..
Yup do join. I just feel sorry for the 300 readers of this buzz who do not care if their country goes to hell....they simply do not care. I really feel hurt by the indifference, insensitivity of the "silent" ones
All,
Sack all PCO judges including Ifftikhar or keep all PCO judges
including Doggar anything other then this will be a shame. Sorry guys but if taking
oath under PCO was wrong in 2007 then it was also wrong in 1999. Your opinions can be subjective but justice is same for everyone. Doggar or Ifftikhar.
Khaliffah,
Would you mind giving a proof for your following, rather poorly conceived,
statement:
Ever ponder why he was removed the first time? Because he
had started to hold the regime accountable for its actions and because
Musharraf was convinced that he would not uphold an unconstitutional
'reelection' of Musharraf.
What actions of Ch. Ifftikhar prior to his first dismissal led you to this conclusion? ofcourse “Because
Nawaz Sharrif says so” is not an acceptable answer here - & I AM DAMN SERIOUS.
Plant a tree
Ehsaas,
Or 3. I like asking difficult questions, which people don't like to answer.
Plant a tree
Plant a Chief Justice
not again....the existing one IS a plant....:)
wasn't his 1st dismessal due to steel mills case????
Missing persons
Shh, not so loud.... Babar might learn the truth and his house of cards come crumbling down
babarzm: " Sorry guys but if taking oath under PCO was wrong in 2007 then it was also wrong in 1999. Your
opinions can be subjective but justice is same for everyone. Doggar or
Ifftikhar."
Absolutely true Babar. Oath under PCO was wrong in 1999 and 2007. No doubt. So are acts of one-man on Nov 3.
Now we have a chance to reverse this one wrong act of Nov 3. By doing so we will be ensuring that a dictator's legacy is rolled up and thrown out. This will indicate that people of Pakistan have demonstrated that they do no like the acts of a military dictator. This 'might' close the door of army intervention in politics. This will also ensure that no situation for taking oath under PCO rares its ugle head again - which you and I totally agree is wrong.
So for the benefit of future generations and ensuring that no judge takes oath again under PCO - the movement has to be supported. Ready to plant a tree babarzm with us?
Irfanzafar,
Missing person case was not reason to sack CJ. The decision
on missing person case came after being reinstated i.e. 21-August-2007. So it can not be the reason however this decision can surely be considered biased and retaliatory due to its timing & prevailing circumstances.
Mianjee,
Steel mill case constituted a panel of 9 judges. So why did they sacked Ifftikhar Chawdhary alone?
In
my understanding (& I have no proof) the reason to sack Iftikhar Chawdary was political rather then
“suppressing” freedom of judiciary. There must be some political alignment
which Musharraf or Shawkat Aziz did not appreciate. Today we know that this was
the exact same time when Musharraf and PPP reached a deal as a result of their negotiations
which started in 2003. & we also know that today it is PPP that is blocking
Musharraf’s impeachment and restoration of Chawdhary. I see all of it as more
of a political chess board rather then a struggle for "Freedom of Judiciary". Chawdhary may be is aligned with forces those are unfavorable to PPP + Mush deal.
However all
said and done the struggle of penguins truly is for the higher cause. While
Chawdhary, PPP, Musharraf , N and Q group are only playing routine politics
Postman,
I totally agree but:
1- Wrongs of since 1947 need reversing. 2- And cost of doing all of it must also be considered. It has already crumbled the economy.
But I still agree. We just need a better way of doing it. Something that has minimum impact on our economy
Khaliffah,
You are acting childish now. We are having a grown up discussion here so come back another time and we will play with you ;)
Plant a tree