Does islam advocate violence ?
submitted 1 year 2 months 15 hours ago by: befair : 158 commentsA vast majority of my fellow muslim buzzers on this site insist that the Quran is a book of peace and that Prophet Muhammad was a peaceful and non violent person who was forced to fight only because he had to defend himself and his faith
Whether or not he was peaceful is a matter of verifying history. But that verification is not the topic of this buzz
The Quran is very clear on what it considers as the biggest sin "Ascribing partners to Allah". So, if I am a hindu, I will go to hell even if my whole life was spent in doing good for others. In other words, I will go to hell solely because of my faith. I could keep away from Prophet Muhammad and his hordes my entire life and practise my faith in secrecy, but I will still go to hell.
Then we go to what happens in hell. Boiling water will be thrown on my head and I will have my time in fire. When my skin scalds and burns off, I will be given fresh skin and the torture process begins all over again. This will happen for ever and ever. Isnt this worse than the beheadings that we saw on a pakistani newspaper website a couple of weeks ago ? At least that pain ends with death.
So, Allah has promised to torture me eternally JUST because I am a non-believer. No good deed that I have done can weigh in for me. There is simply no respite for me if I am a non-believer
If Allah has ordained such punishment for me simply because I am a non believer, why would he ask Prophet Muhammad to do the opposite and not use violence against non believers on the basis of their faith ? Shouldn't Allah and Prophet Muhammad be on the same "righteous" path ?
If you are a father, what deed is it that you believe is good, which you do all the time, and yet, forbid your dear ones (children etc) from doing ? If I am doing good, then I would ask my children to do the same, not forbid them!
So, one of the following two statements has to be FALSE:
1 - Allah punishes all non believers (solely on the basis of their belief) with eternal and VIOLENT torture
2 - Prophet Muhammad NEVER used violence as a tool (not self defence) to propogate islam
Comments
1- Well you don't have to worry since you don't believe in Allah Mian.
2- And you are lucky that Allah Mian (that in your case is non existent) did not gave same leverage to Prophets and followers (who do actually exist) to do the same to non-Believers or otherwise 1.5 billion of his followers may have been putting boiling water on Hindu heads for last 1400 years. I am sure that threat would have converted you into a Muslim too :op
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Na jokes apart.
I suppose Allah Mian knows all what goes on in hearts and minds of a person. Neither Prophet nor another follower has that vision into another individual so they can't punish without availability of absolute knowledge.
In Islam and Judaism the Prophet of God is not consider as a 'worldly image of God' but plainly a messenger, a mortal human or postman who deliver messages of God to fellow humans. This is why Prophet can not be prayed. This is different from Hinduism and Christianity.
Plant a tree
"He punisheth whom he pleases and he forgiveth whom he pleases"
"The most gracious, the most merciful"
That being said, God has prescribed a punishment for "doing evil", "for ascribing partners to God", etc, he has laid out in detail the consequences and has repeated his warning again and again. Now, from a muslim's perspective, anyone who still "chooses" (for it is a choice we make) to hold beliefs contrary to the teachings of the Quran, then that person has been forewarned. It is not up to the muslims to punish him for there is "no compulsion in religion". So to refute your convoluted analogy, In the next few verses God makes it clear that HE will be the one to deal with un-believers and certainly not the prophet.
2:256 There is no compulsion
in religion, for the right way is clear from the wrong way. Whoever therefore
rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a
support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing
and Knowing.
16:82 But if they turn away
from you, (O Prophet remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery
of the Message (entrusted to you).
6:107 Yet if God had so willed,
they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides him; hence, We have
not made you their keeper, nor are you (of your own choice) a guardian
over them.
002.006 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.
002.007 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.
007.178 He whom Allah leadeth, he indeed is led aright, while he whom Allah sendeth astray - they indeed are losers.
007.179 Already have We urged unto hell many of the jinn and humankind, having hearts wherewith they understand not, and having eyes wherewith they see not, and having ears wherewith they hear not. These are as the cattle - nay, but they are worse! These are the neglectful.
007.186 Those whom Allah sendeth astray, there is no guide for them. He leaveth them to wander blindly on in their contumacy.
016.093 Had Allah willed He could have made you (all) one nation, but He sendeth whom He will astray and guideth whom He will, and ye will indeed be asked of what ye used to do
What do the above verses say ? if I am initially an idolator, then there really is no way out for me. My hearing, vision have all been sealed. So what fault is it of me that I am not able to listen to the "message"? Allah decides whom he wants to bring on the right path and whom he leads astray. So where is the ability to think?
What about the claim that islam is a peaceful religion ? Per the Quran, Allah is probably more violent towards non-muslims than any human could ever be. Why, then is it unreasonable to expect a tendency towards violence by the followers of islam ? where is the tolerance here ? The Quran itself says that the idols were the ones that allowed the idolators to commit female infanticide, so why would non muslims not say "If their god himself is so violent, how can we expect them to be peaceful?"
And one more question to all muslims out there, esp Khalifah.
If you were born in a hindu family and brought up in Hindu society, would you still have "seen the light" and adopted islam as you grew up ?
If you are a Hindu and you believe that there is only one true bhagwan, you do good deeds and you know you will be judged for your acts.. then fear not. That is the Islamic criteria.
So you mean to say there are several different versions of heaven, one islamic which provides virgins and one for hindus which sadly does not provide virgins ?
By the way, there is still an outstanding question for you on another buzz related to "slave rape".
There are no 'virgins' per se in heaven but 'pure companions' for ALL the believers including males and females.
055.056 Therein are those of modest gaze, whom neither man nor jinni will have touched before them.
Hmm...i wonder if the quran is referring to "men" that have not been touched by men or jinn :-)
The word used is 'Ins' (human being) in arabic. Had it been 'man' then 'rajal' would have been used. Human beings consist of man and a woman.
But still it is of no use.. no matter how many clarifications I give you.. you still would go for the convoluted version of Quran because it suits your ill-intentions.
Then could you please list out for me your translation of that verse. I have looked at translations from three accepted scholars, Yusufali, Pickthall and Shakir. Let us see the "postman" or "akhrot" version please
Brother. If you think I am lying.. then kindly ask someone who knows arabic and show him/ her that verse. Does the word exist as I say it is or its 'man' as you say it is. Or ask Babar .. he considers me an idiot as you said so he'll leave no stone unturned to prove me one. Right?
Why are you so full of hatred of muslims and Quran?
I consider postman as good, honest and knowledgeable individual. We may not agree on different issues but that does not change the fact that I respect his views. Not just that, I also feel that his views are backed by good intellectual and logical thinking of a good mind.
Plant a tree
And i'm still waiting for an answer on the "slava rape" issue. Please dont forget that one before you go to sleep today ;-)
Dear Postman,
I am only asking you for your translation of that verse. I can neither read not understand arabic. So i have to depend on translations. I am seriously asking you for your translation.
Babar does get pissed with you sometimes, as do I. But rest assured. neither of us hates you. I just want you to open your mind and look at things rationally, not under the veil of religion
I only hate the closedmindedness of people. I would be the same with hindus that support sati or the caste system or those that support the gujarat riots. I would be the first to say that Lord Rama was unjust to Sita when he asked her to take the test of fire (you will understand the context only if you read the Ramayana). We are all humans first and then muslims and hindus. Worship and religion are not sciences. No mode of worship can be considered as false. That is what i hate when the quran says that my mode of worship is wrong. If i am not saying that your mode of worship is wrong, then why should i take crap from your quran when it tells me that I will go to hell just because of my faith ?
I am telling you to look at the arabic in Quran from someone who knows. At least you would come to know whether I am a pathetic lier or someone who wants earnestly to share something with you. Ask anyone on buzzvines to at least check. Perhaps any muslim who thought 'man' comes there would change his mind? No?
had I been the one with closed mind then I would have accepted that translation of that verse whihc says 'man'.. why am I insisting that word used is 'human being'? what sort of closed mind is this that seeks 'different' translation of the word?
Befair: "then why should i take crap from your quran when it tells me that I will go to hell just because of my faith ?"
So do not take crap from the Quran? who is asking you to? Some people might stil believe the world is flat.. so what?
The people that believe the world is flat are the same people that believe that the sun sets in a muddy pond and that mountains were placed on this earth to stabilize it.
"having hearts wherewith they understand not, and having eyes wherewith
they see not, and having ears wherewith they hear not. These are as the
cattle - nay, but they are worse! These are the neglectful.". Again, its about being honest to oneself. This is what the verse is saying, "they have ears but they refuse to hear the Quran, they have knowledge but they "choose" to not understand the Quran.
Do you honestly believe that there are multiple Gods? Do you honestly believe that you will not be judged for your deeds, do you honestly believe that man has no purpose in this world that he is just an 'accident'?
If the answer to all the above questions is yes, then yes, these verses are specifically for you :)
If I was born in Hindu, Sikh, Christian or Jewish family I would have been same what I am today regardless of how and where I was born.
Plant a tree
Apologies for multiple postings
Mr. Khalifa, your text from Queran is very clear and easily understandable. He is fair or UNFAIR its very clear, and he knows about his-self very well. So forget and neglect. Dont give him importance. Khatam Allaho ala qaloobehum wa ala samehum ghishawatun walahum azabun aleem. Allah ne inke dilon per muher thabt ker di hay and inki aankhon per perda aur inke lieye dardnak azab hay. and you know Mr Khalifa, allah said in queran that they recognize it as they recognnize their children but they will not believe. My advise to this man(I dont call him fair or unfair), just simply pray to Allah almighty to show him right way. This in between him and Allah Almighty and I believe he will not be reluctant to do this. Insha allah Aallah almighty will show him right way soon.
Also I will advise him brotherly, to see and listen Dr zakir Videos on Islam and Hinduism. These are very easily understandable.
"Allah ne inke dilon per muher thabt ker di hay and inki aankhon per perda aur inke lieye dardnak azab hay"
And how do you know Mian_q that this Ayaat is not regarding you? Koi gaurenttee hai kiya?
Plant a tree
Khalifah,
As far as the purpose of humanity in this world is concerned, the Quran is very clear that mankind was made just to worship allah...no other purpose. This is all a kiddie game for him.
- He guides those that he pleaseth and leads astray those that he pleaseth.
- He closes my eyes and ears and then sends me to hell for not seeing the truth or
listening to his message
- He says do not bow before anyone but me, but then asks the angels to bow down
before adam
- He says religion is free, but then says that Islam is the only true religion
- He says none of these idols were able to provide proof of their existence and
himself doesnt provide any proof either...save another statement that the sun sets
in a muddy pond at land's end
- He is more violent and vengeful than mankind can ever be, but still calls himself
peaceful and merciful
If these are not irrational and self contradictory statements, then what is ?
- "Allah
said, 'this is the day in which their truthfulness will benefit the
truthful, for them, are Gardens beneath which rivers flow, they shall
abide therein for ever. Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased
with Allah. This is the great success."
Allah's 'pleasure' is not arbitrary, it has to be earned by living according to his guidance. So the people whom he "chooses" to guide are those who, at the very least, attempt to lead a righteous life and attempt to refrain from all that he labels evil. Whereas the people he "chooses" to lead astray are those who willfully denounce the truth, which leads us to the next point:
- And those who willfully denounce the truth, who 'see', 'hear' and 'understand' the truth but yet persist, out of selfish stubbornness, to be antagonistic to it. So, if these God given faculties are misused, then God has the right to "close" or take back these faculties and let the person fall deeper into disbelief because that is the path the person has consciously chosen.
- Bow down, in this case does not imply worship but simply an acknowledgment of man's supremacy over other creation and the fact that man must bow down to God, "willingly or unwillingly" indicates the supremacy of God over all his creation
-Of course Islam is the only true religion for Islam simply means to submit (to God's will) through worship, etc. If you strip all other religions of their dogmas and traditions then the underlying message is universal. For what did Christ, Moses, Abraham, etc ask their followers to do? Simply to believe in God and render worship to him. "That is religion, plain and clear". The peculiar rituals, beliefs and laws are just a means to that same end.
-Breakfast time for me, why don't you chew on this for now and I will be back with more :)
If i wilfully CHOOSE to accept hinduism as my religion, where is the question of Allah CHOOSING to lead me astray ? If i choose another path, then it means that I am independent in my thought, not clouded by Allah's message
I can either be of independent thought or be blindly led by someone - cant do both
Your choice comes first. His choice is based on the conscious choice you make in contradiction of his commandments
So you support the following situation:
There's a child that has known nothing but working against the law. There's no way he can be reformed. So the justice system should support him in his criminal activities so he becomes an even bigger criminal and eventually he is "worthy" of being tortured and hanged ?
Where is Allah, the "most merciful" ?
Or let me ask you this question:
Can anyone among the taliban be reformed ? these people have known nothing but killing for a significant portion of their lives. Their ideology forbids them from "tolerating" any view which does not exactly fit theirs. Do you support bringing them to the discussion table or would you say that they cannot be reformed at all and just need to be killed. Also kill those kids that have been with the taliban in the formative years of their lives because they can never be "reformed"
What is free will and at what point do you say that a person cannot come back and embrace another concept. If allah already knows that a person is going to be an unbeliever (since allah knows everything anyways), then why even try ?
According to this methodology, an ideology can only be changed by killing all that follow it....not by trying to talk to them and convince them
Mixing distortion of Islamic faith with need for concurring USSR has created present day Afghanistan. Post cold war civil/gang/Tribal wars of Afghanistan lasted 10 years before Taliban were created to end those wars and establish a single rule.
Unfortunately in absence of any other viable option and wake of continues civil/gang/tribal wars on multiple fronts in Afghanistan, causing thousands of lives being lost every year for more then 10 years, it made Taliban a necessity of day back then.
Thanks to American doctrine the whole world is a mess now, Afghan are the biggest victims of our cruelties. Imagine someone doing this to India or Pakistan. See photos of tourist heaven Kabul of 1970s and compare it to today's graveyard.
Plant a tree
"There's no way he can be reformed" . That is an assumption YOU are making but not one that the Quran makes; it puts the onus for upholding righteousness solely on the person for he has been given "sight and hearing and the criterion to judge between wrong and right.".
"Can anyone among the taliban be reformed ?". It is not my place to reform anyone. I can share my beliefs and interpretations with them and I can resist their attempts at forcing their belief systems on me, violently, if warranted. However, Islam does not want me to kill anyone simply because they choose not to believe as I do. But if someone tries to restrict my freedom or prevents me from attaining self actualization then Islam gives me free reign, (once I have exhausted all peaceful means), to kill, subdue and overcome all forms of oppression. And that is a prerogative I would excercise regardless of my religious affiliation
Isnt the Quran making that CONCLUSION when it says that Allah will close the unbelievers ears and eyes and lead him/her further astray ?
So, once I believe that my religion is one of the right ways to reach god (and reject the statement that islam is the ONLY correct path), I have already made that decision. If Allah, who has created me as well as you, wants to bring me back to the "right" path, shouldnt he not give up on me ? If people can be convinced into tying suicide vests around themselves, why cant Allah, the supposedly all knowing and all powerful bring me around to the conclusion that he wants me to get at ?
If the onus is on me, then again, where is allah CHOOSING to lead me astray ?
018.060 And when Moses said unto his servant: I will not give up until I reach the point where the two rivers meet, though I march on for ages.
018.061 And when they reached the point where the two met, they forgot their fish, and it took its way into the waters, being free.
018.062 And when they had gone further, he said unto his servant: Bring us our breakfast. Verily we have found fatigue in this our journey.
018.063 He said: Didst thou see, when we took refuge on the rock, and I forgot the fish - and none but Satan caused me to forget to mention it - it took its way into the waters by a marvel.
018.064 He said: This is that which we have been seeking. So they retraced their steps again.
018.065 Then found they one of Our slaves, unto whom We had given mercy from Us, and had taught him knowledge from Our presence.
018.066 Moses said unto him: May I follow thee, to the end that thou mayst teach me right conduct of that which thou hast been taught ?
018.067 He said: Lo! thou canst not bear with me.
018.068 How canst thou bear with that whereof thou canst not compass any knowledge ?
018.069 He said: Allah willing, thou shalt find me patient and I shall not in aught gainsay thee.
018.070 He said: Well, if thou go with me, ask me not concerning aught till I myself make mention of it unto thee.
018.071 So they twain set out till, when they were in the ship, he made a hole therein. (Moses) said: Hast thou made a hole therein to drown the folk thereof ? Thou verily hast done a dreadful thing.
018.072 He said: Did I not tell thee that thou couldst not bear with me ?
018.073 (Moses) said: Be not wroth with me that I forgot, and be not hard upon me for my fault.
018.074 So they twain journeyed on till, when they met a lad, he slew him. (Moses) said: What! Hast thou slain an innocent soul who hath slain no man ? Verily thou hast done a horrid thing.
018.075 He said: Did I not tell thee that thou couldst not bear with me ?
018.076 (Moses) said: If I ask thee after this concerning aught, keep not company with me. Thou hast received an excuse from me.
018.077 So they twain journeyed on till, when they came unto the folk of a certain township, they asked its folk for food, but they refused to make them guests. And they found therein a wall upon the point of falling into ruin, and he repaired it. (Moses) said: If thou hadst wished, thou couldst have taken payment for it.
018.078 He said: This is the parting between thee and me! I will announce unto thee the interpretation of that thou couldst not bear with patience.
018.079 As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working on the river, and I wished to mar it, for there was a king behind them who is taking every ship by force.
018.080 And as for the lad, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief.
018.081 And we intended that their Lord should change him for them for one better in purity and nearer to mercy.
According to this story, a lad is killed on the orders of Allah just because someone had forseen that he would oppress his believing parents by rebellion. If the lad had free will, then it is quite possible that he may have seen the so called "right path" and not caused his parents any so called oppression. But, allah made that call well before time and decided to slay the lad IN ADVANCE.
Again, where is allah the merciful ? he didnt even give the lad a chance to see the so called "right path"
Suppose you are a recent convert muslim.. You as Quran reader come to (your favourite) slave rape verse. Would you, rape the slave or be righteous and chaste?
Bro,
I would NOT rape the slave. This post is not about what YOU and other ordinary good human beings (irrespective of whether he is a muslim or not) of today's world would do. The debate here is solely focused on what the Quran allows or the rights that the Quran confers.
I dont get it. You have problems with Quran. You say it allows sick acts. I follow Quran 'wholeheartedly' so to say from my side.. but you dont have problems with me. Ideally I should be doing sick acts because I follow a sick book but you say this is not about me. What is your problem?
Khalifah,
Are you going to try and justify this lad's slaying ?
My issue is with the ideology and not the person. I believe that there is a significant percentage of muslims that have not yet given up on rational thought and hope that they will bring the muslim world out of its 1400 year old customs and overdependence on the Quran
Let me ask you this question - do you accept hindus' right to worship as equal to your own ? do you sincerely respect my religion ?
If your answer to this question is "yes", then I would say that you are a good human being, but you are also at risk of going against the core beliefs of the Quran
I dont know if you have read the Quran in its entirety, but a significant portion of the verses are dedicated to eternally torturing non muslims. The quran states that "there is no compulsion in religion", but at the same time promises eternal fiery trysts to those that dont believe.
After reading the quran, can you really say that Allah is tolerant of non muslims? to him, NOTHING matters more than worshipping him. How can an inherently violent Allah ask his followers to be peaceful ? it just doesnt add up
How about telling you that I read Quran almost everyday .. with translation.. for the past 8 years?
How about telling you that as a hindu you have all the right to your religion? I even said that the only Islamic criteria for salvation is belief in one Allah, God, bagwan, HonkaBonka whatever .. that you do good deeds and fear that you'll be held accountable for your acts - Whatever faith you belong to?
How about telling you that God does not tell me to pour boiled water on non-muslims? that I can befriend them?
That there is 'no compulsion in religion'? That even prophet muhammad was not tasked to convert people - but to just deliver the message?
109:01 - Say : O ye that reject Faith!
109:02 - I worship not that which ye worship,
109:03 - Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109:04 - And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
109:05 - Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109:06 - To you be your Way, and to me mine.
My Friend,
There is a great deal of controversy over whether the Quran asks its followers to be violent against non muslims. Muslims believe it doesnt allow violence and a lot of non muslims believe that Islam advocates violence towards non muslims (and non muslims have history on their side too). But, that is still controversial, so i'd keep that aside for now
But, there is absolutely no controversy or contradiction in the Quran as far as Allah's treatment of non muslims is concerned - those among the christians that believe in the Trinity, hindus and greeks are among those that clearly violate quranic teachings about monoethism. Hindus and Greeks go a step further and pray before idols !
If you accept 100% of the Quran, you should believe that whatever Allah does is absolutely correct - and this includes eternal torture for non-muslims based solely on their faith, irrespective of their good deeds on earth.
Practice what you preach - do you believe in this saying ? If you do, then you will find a VERY BASIC contradiction in the Quran. Allah is preaching non violence (according to you) while practising violence of the highest degree himself. This is what I find difficult to stomach.
Befair : "But, there is absolutely no controversy or contradiction in the Quran as far as Allah's treatment of non muslims is concerned"
:)
not non-muslims.. polytheists to be more exact. And muslims too come in this category. So before I worry about you.. I should be worried about burning of my ass! :p
It says "non believers" and I would assume that includes hindus, greeks and christians that believe jesus to be the son of god...and as far as jews are concerned, it depends upon Allah's mood whether at that time, they are friends or foes (the quran has several contradictory verses on whether christians and jews are friends or foes)
You need to worry about boiling water and fire only if you commit "sins" as defined in the quran. But you can never be worse than me since I have committed the biggest sin of all - that of ascribing partners to allah. Your sins can be forgiven, mine cannot
The greatest sin of all is polytheism/ Shirk according to God (31:13). EVEN muslims can do that - they are not excluded. Muslims dont have a 'Get Out of Jail Free' card
For your 'non-muslims will go to hell' statement...
2:62 - Those who believe and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures),
and the Christians and the Sabians,- ANY who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work
righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor
shall they grieve.
This is the Islamic criteria.
Only those people are a bliever's enemy who religiously persecute them. There is no contradiction in it.
Dude,
That "greatest sin" is endemic to hindus and greeks in today's world. We have different gods for different fucntions that ultimately roll up to the trinity...Brahma, Vishnu & Mahesh. That is hinduism as far as worship is concerned.
i polythesize due to the fact that I was brought up in a hindu household. That itself makes me a criminal according to islamic criteria.
How can you judge an individuals faith? How come humans have this capacity? Why do you believe that every christian and hindu is a polytheists? how come every muslim is a monotheist?
Quaran does not ask it's followers to commit unprovoked violence against anyone. What God, the creator chooses to do with his creation is up to him. If he does not take "idol worship" and "joining of partners" lightly and has warned against it then the onus is clearly on the people who choose to disobey his command.
"based solely on their faith..." This matter might seem trivial to you, but apparently it is not trivial for God and he calls it the greatest of all sins. So yes according to the Quran ALL non-believers will rot in hell. If you choose to ignore this 'threat', that choice is certainly yours to make and it is on this choice that you will be judged but then when this event "cometh to pass", "don't say you were not warned" :)
Allah establishes justice which is why "Allah is preaching non violence (according to you) while practising violence of the highest degree himself". In every country, the law clearly discourages people from using violence against one another but reserves that right for itself. Do you see a 'contradiction' there too or plain wisdom?
As for the 'lad', the Quran does not specify whether that lad was already a threat to society or not. Maybe he was already guilty of murder and hence posed a threat to his parent, etc but all that is conjecture. This purpose of this story is not to lay down laws on how and why to kill 'lads' but to serve as an eye opener as to how incomplete and imperfect our knowledge is so that what actually seems horrible and harmful can certainly be very positive if only we have a broader perspective and understanding.
This actually should be an eyeopener for you as well because issues that you bring up are controversial simply due to the fact that your knowledge (and mine too) of facts and wisdom espoused by the Quran is incomplete. The Quran requires more than a cursory overview for complete, unbiased, understanding
"what god chooses to do with his creation is upto him".
How much more illogical can this get. You justify Allah's eternal torture of "non muslims" as just "his choice". Your Allah must have severe mood swings then !
And you also say that all humanity is "his creation". If I were to create something, I would make sure that my creation corresponds to my expectations. It is only a sadist Allah that lets (or in many cases, deliberately leads) people astray simply for the SADISTIC pleasure of seeing them burning in hell through eternity
As far as country specific laws are concerned, these are usually made by people in that country who have the right to change it to keep it abreast of times. Of course, in islamic countries, this is not possible since your thought process has been blocked by the authority of a 1400 year old book. Countries lay down laws for CRIMES. In today's world, do you think that following a religion other than Islam is a crime ??
As of today, do you sincerely respect other religions ? if your answer is yes, then you are accepting something that the Quran has unequivocally REJECTED and established severe punishment for. You cannot accept 100% of the Quran and still respect other religions.
As for the lad, I am only saying what the quran quoted. It clearly says that the reason for slaying him was "Fear that he would oppress his believing parents by rebellion and disbelief". If the lad was already a murderer, the quran would have definitely stated that since Allah is "all knowing"
I respect the right of people to choose to worship however it is they please. I will not force anyone to change their belief system but if they ask me to explain my beliefs I will do so gladly. I will not find fault with anyone's religion for it matters not to me whom or what they believe in; they are answerable for what they do and I for what I do. I will refrain from mocking anyone's religion for I simply do not like my religion or belief's mocked
But do I 'respect' other religions? Certainly not! Simply because they contradict everything I believe in and they contradict reason itself or what I deem reasonable.
Or maybe I should rephrase this in that I respect the Islam in all religions, for all religions, stripped of ecclesiastical blasphemy are nothing but Islam and call for little more than worship of the one true God
I am NOT an appologist who applogizes more for his own lack of religious understanding than any real shortcomings in the Quran.
So basically, you respect only ISLAM and the quran for your percieved notion of it being infallible.
You live in an imposed state of peacefulness with other religions simply because today, you dont have the strength to subjugate them to your views.
Rephrasing your sentence and saying "I respect the Islam in all religions" does not bestow upon you any legitimacy
You dont need to mock anyone's religion simply because the Quran has done it for you. Through your blind faith in the quran, you are mocking other religions 24/7
You are definitely not an apologist, rather an arrogant irrational person who is mistakenly under the impression that his, and only his views, are the truth
Yes, I respect only Islam and the Quran and the right of others to practice whatever they fancy, however, I am under no compulsion to respect or accept their beliefs.
I live in peace with other religions because the Quran commands me to
I don't mock anyone's religion because the Quran commands me to
I am not under any "impression" but under unreserved conviction that is founded on education, research, contemplation and the "reproaching soul"
Let's talk about you and your motive; by your own admission you believe that God is the creation of man, but at the same time you seem to have a very soft corner for Hinduism.
On the one hand you claim to not have read any Hindu holy book and on the other you are over eager to read the Quran with the sole intention of maligning it.
You chastise me for being arrogant and not 'respecting' other religions covertly whereas you reserve the right for yourself to overtly disrespect Islam, its God and its holy men.
The differences in our character and morality as evidenced on Buzzvines truly highlights the values inculcated by Islam in Muslims and leaves me in no doubt as to who is "rightly guided"
So you prefer to be a hypocrite when you befriend non muslims ? these people, according to the quran, have committed bigger crimes than murder and rape. Do you ask your wife and kids to keep away from all non-muslims as they are criminals of the worst degree ? if not, then you are not with the spirit of the quran
You live in peace with other religions just like prophet muhammad lived initially in mecca before going to madina and gathering an army. Your lack of power compels you to live in peace with all the infidel criminals around you
As i said before, you dont need to mock other religions. Your quran does that for you
I have always said that RELIGION is the creation of man. I dont know about the existence of god and dont have proof of either his/her existence or lack thereof
I have been brought up as a hindu, but with values which tell me that religion is but, a path to god and that no mode of worship is wrong or illegal. I have been given good moral character and have developed a thought process, independent of religion to decide what is right vs what is wrong. I will readily accept shortcomings of hinduism as well
My eagerness to read and understand the quran stems from the ideology that is bent upon destroying my world in the name of islam.
Just as prophet muhammad had the right to "defend his faith" and fight against those that went against him, the non muslim populace also have a right to defend their faith against the hate mongering in the quran. At least the non muslim world is not adopting prophet muhammad's way of the sword to settle scores.
Difference in rational thought and having an open mind to discussion has of course been evidenced on buzzvines.