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Death penalty in Pakistan
submitted 2 months 7 days 5 hours ago by: Babarzm : 54 commentsDawn (22-06-08): During the first PPP government in the 1970s, the life imprisonment had been enhanced to 25 years from 14 years with the aim that the capital punishment would be abolished. However, the Zia-ul-Haq regime kept both life sentences of 25 years and death penalty intact.
According to reports, 62 countries maintain death penalty in both law and practice, while 92 countries have abolished it. Ten countries have retained it for crimes committed in time of war.
Do you think its good time for Pakistan to join the club by eliminating death penalty?
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Which crimes is the death penalty given for in Pakistan, Barbarzm?
Following are three prominent ones.
a. Murder (Hang to death under Common Low)
b. Blasphemy (Stone to death under Hadood Law- Publicly)
c. Adultery (Stone to death under Hadood Law- Publicly)
Last two are especially designed to discriminate against women and minority religions. If required, I will be happy to explain this in greater detail.
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d.sedition n treason (punishable by death or life imprisonment)
Pakistan itself is under a death penalty. The lucky onces go with a BANG.
The Boy is Ignorance the Girl is Want. Beware them both and all of their degree...
.......Charles Dickens
(And we have issued a lot of Degrees in courts and in colleges!!!)
Wannat hear the rest of it from Dickens?
Yes please oxymoron. Why not?
So what is the opinion now?
An eye for an eye! :)
Noone can judge what is and what is not blasphemous. So totally meaningless in that case. Would serve no good. It would be better to cut his tongue out and break his hands and feet forever so that he can neva say or write anything against your religion because otherwise he can do the same a thousand times in the prison too and can only be punished once for it. I can neva understand how actually our prophet or Holy book get affected by that.
Adultery - well somehow the public stoning thing appeals to me. If I eva did something like that I would like that for myself. :)
Treason- Yes should be hung publicly or better crucified. Would make a nice picture.
r u a photographer?
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Hang on for another couple of hours for further confirmation ;)
Interesting!
Pro or for leisure pursuit?
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What does it seem? :)
No clue. Haven't had chance to look at much of your work. Is there any online portfolio?
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That is a direct challenge to my humility!
Anyways check out the following link. See the photos bottom up- that means start looking at them from the bottom of the page for best viewing! Enjoy. :)
http://thetulipsheart.blogspot.com/
Good work. Well done
We share a common hobby. I am not sure if following link will work correctly. Please let me know if it doesn't:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/babar/
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Impressive Babarzm! I am not that good yet. :)
You are pretty good & will only get better with time.
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Let's see. Which camera do you use, if you don't mind my asking? Seems like a difficult question to answer for you!
Not at all.
Have used three different ones in last 8 years. Initially it was Yashica SLR then I used Pentex SLR and now, since last year I have been using Pentex K100 DSLR. I am very pleased with last two purchases.
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Thank you.
i think the death penalty against murder and treason should be carried on..but for blasphamy and Adultry , i have reservations.
Our law doesnt provide well explaination to prove the above two crimes. Most of the time the blasphamy is charged on a person who have different views than common muslims as in Gohar Shahi case, He was charged for blasphamy but at last we got info that a famous newspaper owner was partner of Gohar shahi and to get his share he alleged him for blasphamy and it was proved becasue he had different views.
1st it should be well defined that how will these crime be proved? Moreover if some one puts these allegation on soem one and fails to prove than he/she should be sentenced as Islam says punsihment for BUHTAN.
Buhtan. What is that about?
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is apostasy punishable by death in Pakistan??? i clearly remember MMA was angling for an apostasy act last year...m unsure of the outcome
Babar: Buhtan means the false allegation(jhoota Ilzam)....For the Zina Law in islam there are very difficult conditions. Two mentally healthy and Sahib-e-Amal witness required and if allegation not proved then the person who out that allegation should be punished. If we adopt islamic standered I beleive that no one will be harmed becasue every one will be afraid of punishmen to BUHTAN.
For blasphamy , It cant be proved untill unless the person who did so accept himself or his speech or scripture written by him/her doesnt testify that...As Tslima nasreen accpted that she did so and Rushdi accepted that he with full senses did that...For these kind of people there should be a punishment.
PINKI: The hasba bill was not approved so it is not a part of law.
Thanks for the valuable information. It is very useful. The Hadood Ord. interestingly does exactly the opposite though. It punishes the victim instead of the culprit, if victim fails to prove crime. To prove the crime the rape victim need 4 adult male Muslim witnesses
In other words, if you are a victim of rape and you are unable to prove that in court (i.e. you don’t have 4 adult male Muslims who have monitored the act of rape), it will automatically punish you for adultery. This is one reason no rape victim in Pakistan likes to go to the court for justice.
Following is how the situation is explained at wikipedia:
A woman alleging rape is required to provide four adult male witnesses of good standing of "the act of penetration". In practice this is virtually impossible as no man of good standing would stand there and watch the violent act. Failure to find such proof of the rape places the woman at risk of prosecution for accusing an innocent man of adultery, which does not require such strong evidence. Moreover, to prove rape the female victim has to admit that sexual intercourse had taken place. If the alleged offender, however, is acquitted for want of further evidence the woman now faces charges for either adultery, if she is married, or for fornication, if she is not married. According to a report by Pakistan National Commission on the Status of Women (NCSW) "an estimated 80% of women" in jail in 2003 were there as because "they had failed to prove rape charges and were consequently convicted of adultery."
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Ya baber it makes no sense ...WHy some one will rape any one in presence or after intimation??? This is all becasue of Half-headed Mullahs...It should be changed...
On other hand it should not be totally eliminated becasue the women will start blaming males and in result half of the city will be in prison... I observed a few cases in South punjab where Bradries/politcians used Women to blame their opponents..Though after investigation the innocent was released but he had got a big black mark on his chracter..
I used to sit in PUNCHAIT system where if a girl claims that some one rapped her then that male is supposed to present 4 AQIL O BALIGH witness to testify that he was not at that place at that time...Or he was some where else at that time..Mnay times it observed that if male gets false witness then the rapid investigation questions of punchait dont let them hide the truth...But i dislike the punchait's decisions to present women in return..Once a case observed where a woman went to meet her ASHNA but when other people arrived at spot she made a hue and cry to show herself innocent..
it needs a total change in investigation process , law and punishment for this case.
mianjee u r cent percent right...such shameless women actually charge fee to lie n accuse some innocent man.....when my father was posted in Multan, i actually met a lawyer who was bragging abt a case,,,where he hired two of such women to weaken the case of the defendant......
Regarding punishment for blasphemy, how will you define blasphemy? Is it only applicable when a person is blasphemous to the Islamic figures or any insult to any religious figures including that of Christian, Hindus, Sikhs will also be considered blasphemy.
In my understanding every citizen of Pakistan must be treated equally, so if religious figures of Islam are to be respected then all religions deserve same treatment & the punishment therefore should also be same.
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BABAR: you are right....In pakistan i have never seen any muslim humiliating any other religon or their respected personalities..even when Babri Mosque was desstructed no Munder was sat on fire..This rule to respect all is for all religons..
IOLA : This thing(blasphamy) doesnt affect PBUH or Quran but it affects the followers..Why we flair up when some one abuses our parents? becasue we love and respect them and we cant bear their humiliation...If our parents are so so sacred then why not the PBUH, Quran , Allah, Christ or any other respected entity, becasue these entities let the world know how to live ....
How the blasphamy will be judged??? It can be judged if the concerned sect/religon/society feels it hurting...Like what was done by Rushdi and Taslima no one can say it a good practice...
The major problem is reaction of people which should be not like that....Burning banks and Food chains is not the way to protest...The protest can be of these types:
1-Arguments against the blasphamic content
2-litrary and procession protest
3-pressure on Govt to take action (as in Denish case)
Lets for the sake of argument consider blasphemy as insult for any Islamic or non-Islamic religious figure.
What in your understanding is the most suited punishment for the culprit?
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There should be absolutely no punishment for that!
Maybe some days' secluded existence in a place where he can better understand to respect the religion of others and learn about it to avoid making the same mistake again can address the problem for those whom it offends!
Iola : it is amazing that you are looking for relaxation of those few peopel who will hurt feelings of billions of people...
If europe can introduce legisilation of harrasment on just continous stairining then how it is not required for humiliatioon of religious sentiment??? If speakign against Holocast me be a offense then why it cant be?
Don't our feelings get equally hurt by all the other lil things that ppl say or do to us as well? For example if someone hits your child!
What’s your take on punishment for adultery, murder and treason?
My understanding is that:
1.A person involved in adultery is punished in his or her afterlife. So why punished twice? After all this is not a worldly crime it is a spiritual and religious crime so better leave the judgment for Allah.
2.Now for murder, again I think that the purpose should not be to revenge or an eye for an eye. Instead, the purpose should be to make the public life safer by putting a harmful person in quarantine and to punish that person so his actions can be corrected. Death penalty looks more like revenge on behalf of the grieved.
3.Treason – Such a person deserves public humiliation as punishment instead of death sentence.
In my understanding death penalty is unnecessary for all the above crimes.
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if we see it from that angle, then it seems most of the sins are being punished "twice"(unless of course the perpetrator seeks forgiveness from Allah Almighty)...n adultery IS a wordly crime,,imagine the feelings of anguish n shame xperienced by the cheated spouse, their kids, parents....honour of 3 families mutilated...since this baggage associated with the sin is wordly so the sin itself is also wordly.... how can u call it a "spiritual crime"....
anyways premeditated murder should be punishable by death...such coldblooded killers can strike again...their life history (parents beatings etc) is such which contributes to their depravity,,,no amount of rehabilitation efforts can reverse those effects of childhood experiences.....State should not waste her resources in treatment n training of such useless (read harmful) citizens...
spur of the moment murder,on the other hand, should b excluded frm death penalty(and i guess they are)...its sth any human can do...n whose job is to aid in distinguishing these two types of murder by gathering enough evidence???? err Police i m afraid...:)
Treason should b punishable by death, i m so sorry that a more worthy punishment isn't available,....such traitors are in it for money mostly, so as long as they get the money frm the enemy state, public humilation would b compensated by the warm welcome they will receive over there....Death sentence would make their job a bit risky, so the riskaverse type are likely to be deterred despite their intent to betray..
Pinki: a beautiful argument....I appreciate though no more explaination needed but i think
Babar:
The EYE FOR EYE is a better law...Islam doesnt say thay the murder should be hanged if it is done accidently or with extreme anger...Court also considers it..Islam gives a provision that if the blood relatives of the victim forgive the murderer than no death penalty remains..If some one will kill me i dont think my parents and brothers will not in favor of death penalty of the murderer..
For adultry..the logic given by pinki is very valid...The adultry doesnt come in Haqooq Allah but it comes in Haqooq Ul Ibad bcz it affects the society and associated people.
For Blasphamy Iola's question with child example is not valid...hitting a kid is a taboo becasue no one will hit my kid without any anger or reason..but Humiliating respected personalities is a well thought phenomenon..The people who do it are reasonable in their real life..they do it deliberatly some times just for fame..."budnam jo hon gay to kia naam na ho ga"
If an mentally upset person humiliates respected entities, religion and law provides him/her pardon
:) thanks mianjee..... pata nai babar ko kaisa lagta hai....
Aur Khalifah i m very disappointed in u....the moment u get up, show up on this buzz...do not let ur differences overcome ur freedom of expression...no more lame excuses (like "Everything had already been said"__Khalifah, Gone with the wind)......
I totally respect both your opinions and the logic behind them. Fortunately we can have open debate on sensitive issues here– we can have differences of opinion while also respecting opposite opinions.
Just for sake of clarity, adultery does not necessarily mean cheating on husband or wife. One can be involved in sexual relationship with the person he or she loves. What is your take on this form of adultery, when there is no cheating involved?
& what in your opinion is the best punishment for adultery? Do you suggest stoning to death as an appropriate punishment or is there something less harsh that you support?
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havnt got a clue...what type of adultery is that??? are u talking abt fornication or sth???
Sorry my bad. I was talking about fornication
"where a man and a woman are said to commit zina if
they willfully have sexual intercourse without being validly married to each
other."
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Babar..I dont know why pinki is not positive about you :) ..she should be..I feel you are the best new entry here..with humble attitude...i disagree that khalifah is silent due to differences..He is not this type of person...
Brother, the stoning is valid for Married persona only in islam which is justified above...For the becholars the punishment is "durray ya koray" ..and why is this...to prevent the society from this social evil..if these sexual relationships will be allowed then you can imagine where society will be going..Greek-Roman civilization was the 1st known society with Free-sex relationships..how it demolished then...you can read it in history..That kind of affairs became reason of many battles..(Modoodi's PARDA is a nice book on this)
Moreover, how some one can go into a sexual relation without love and liking??? If some one does so then he/she just like animals..Not a sensible human behaviar..
If love is there then why two people cant go in life time relationship?? why do they seek timely pleasure? There is no such bond which can ensure that the persona involved in sexual relationship before marriage, will certailny be life partners in future...when it is not sure then why to use each other??
mianjee aap aag laga lain!....Babar has my vote for best new entry as well....aur K ko bhi sirf tease kar rai thi to make him reply....
Mianjee Hadood Ord. was introduced under Zia regime. Earlier
there was no such law preventing a sexual relationship between two unmarried
individuals. However the society by large was not much different back then from
what it is today.
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hahaha Pinki: you think me a PHAPHA KUTNI :) main bhee serious nahi tha..Some times you too become "thundi muchli"...
Babar :
Zia misused this law to prove himself Ameer Ul Momineen, He declared the actual rule with vicious spirit..that was not clearly explained and constituted thats why women ,especially, suffered alot..we cant say this rule is wrong as it was in practice at teh time of PBUH and remained after that. The above discussion shows its need but with true explaination, legesilation and spirit.
Mianjee,
I agree with you in principal, yet I like to look into this matter from a social perspective instead of legal one.
Hopefully we will better-off, if we can focus on building strong characters instead of week legislations. Such issues should be taught in schools instead of being imposed on a common man through police or courts.
In other words, I think it is more of an issue of character building rather then a crime control. What do you think?
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If islamic point of view will be taught in schools then all librals will be on the roads that we are stuffing kids...They are not in favor of madrissah than how will they accpet islamic laws and principles in traditional institutes...
In general we need efforts in both aspects...Making the mind set about the principles and then using law to make sure that it is not being voilated. If we think without strict measure people can be on the right path we are not right..You can see in developed countries our people follow every rule but here they voilat every law and they feel pride in it...we have the same rules but the problem is in implimentation of law and punishments in return...
It does not have to be specific to Islam or Muslims. It is part of society and culture also. I don't think a reasonable content will generate any concern for NGOs. Unless it discriminate women and minorities I don't see NGOs creating any problems here. NGOs are anti-discrimination & I like to believe that so is Islam.
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Going by your question and the information provided I will make the following assumptions otherwise the discussion will become too theocratic
1. We are talking purely about implementation of the death penalty in Pakistan
2. Pakistan is following the Islamic law
First I will define Islamic law as law derived purely from interpretation of the Quran and not from Hadith and certainly not a continuation of the convoluted entity known as fiqh. It is my opinion (not that my opinion really counts) that if we want to really implement an Islamic state then it is not necessary that our laws be derived from Islam but rather the laws we formulate should not go against the tenets of Islam. Yes there is a difference...
We now come to your question about the death penalty
Going by our assumption (2) we can look at this in two ways
1. We should implement the death penalty since that is what Islam prescribes
2. If we pass a law that eliminates the death penalty, does that law contravene Islamic injunctions?
The answer to 1 is that the quran allows and does not mandate the death penalty (in fact forgiveness is encouraged) so clearly any law that outlaws the death penalty does not contravene Islamic injunctions.
The question that now remains is "Should the death penalty be eliminated"?
The answer to that would be to allow debate in the governing body (the parliament in Pakistan's case) if the majority approves and passes legislation to that effect then yes, without breaking any Islamic law the death penalty would be eliminated.
By the same token if the same paliament or a different one later reinstates the death penalty then that too should be acceptable. The point being that each generation should be able to formulate the laws by which it wants to be governed because government after all really is by the people and for the people
Personally, I think that the death penalty should remain on the books as a deterrent and be sparsely used after due consideration by a full court rather than by a single judge; and if carried out, it should be broadcast in all its gory glory to really act as a deterrent.
Khalifah,
Thanks for detailed and enlightening argument. I will also be interested in learning your take on the following crimes individually:
a. Murder
b. Blasphemy
c. Adultery
d. Treason
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You may want to start a new buzz for each of those otherwise the discussion will be lost in this buzz. Most people dont tend to read buzzes that have a lot of comments
This will also give everyone a chance to discuss each point in detail
Thanks
:) Daikha mianjee ? here he is....thanks K....warna mera kehna tu mera chhota bhayi bhi nahi maanta
i agree that death sentence should b carried out in public (the crooks n other petty criminals should b given special invitation)